Episode 102: How to Market Books After the Launch - With Special Guest, Paulette Kennedy
We put so much energy into planning book releases, but how do you market and promote books after launch?
Join us for an insightful discussion with special guest, Paulette Kennedy on what works when marketing books post-launch.
We discuss strategies for authors to maintain sales and engagement, including ideas for building a loyal community of readers.
We also touch on the role of adverting, choosing the right Amazon categories and keywords, the importance of building a community of authors for mutual support.
Episode Resources:
Women’s Fiction Writers Retreats in Albuquerque in September and Alexandria in October (Lainey mentioned that she is attending Albuquerque)
Angela Ackerman - author of Writer’s Thesaurus Series and creator of One Stop For Writers site, who will be a speaker at the WFWA retreat in Albuquerque
Author Nation Conference in Las Vegas November 11-15th (Lainey is attending)
Weekly Writer Support Group - Co-hosted by Lainey Cameron and Charlotte Dune
WriteHive - a nonprofit that hosts programs dedicated towards helping writers achieve their goals, with a conference, thematic anthologies, events, mentorships, sponsored writer and Indie Ink awards
20Books Conference 2023 sessions on YouTube including Lainey referenced with author, Steve Higgs talking about his Facebook ad strategy and his ads with simple, attention-grabbing images and minimal text.
Facebook Ads Coaching - Heidi McIntyre: She’s amazing, digs in and loves data for some odd reason! Paulette works with her.
Hot Tip:
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About Paulette Kennedy:
Paulette Kennedy is the bestselling author of The Witch of Tin Mountain, The Devil and Mrs. Davenport, and Parting the Veil. Originally from the Missouri Ozarks, Paulette now lives in Southern California with her family and a menagerie of rescue pets.
Books & Authors Mentioned
The Devil and Mrs. Davenport by Paulette Kennedy
Her next release is a novel of gothic suspense set in 1920s Eureka Springs, Arkansas.
Connect with Paulette:
Kerry Chaput - author of historical fiction with a great series on her TikTok and Instagram about badass women from history
Writer Thesaurus Series by Angela Ackerman and Becca Puglisi
What Eyes Can’t See by Paulette Stout
The Exit Strategy by Lainey Cameron
Episode Sponsors
12 Weeks to Book Launch Success - Lainey’s program to help authors successfully launch their book
Program Info - 12 Weeks to Book Launch Success.
Join the wait list for 12 Weeks to Book Launch Success
Join Lainey’s list for free book marketing tips and webinars
Paulette’s Indie author coaching - schedule time here or email her at info@paulettestout.com
Women Writers Women’s Books - Contact Barbara Bos - email barbarabos@booksbywomen.org - for info on sponsorship of the sites, group and social media
Full Disclosure: We are part of the Amazon affiliate program, which means Lainey earns a tiny commission (maybe enough for a coffee if you buy something after clicking through from a link on this website.
Note: next sections are mostly created by AI for your convenience - so please forgive any typos or inaccuracies!
Summary
We discuss strategies for authors to maintain sales and engagement after a book's initial launch. We emphasized the importance of long-term perspectives, patience, and continuous marketing efforts.
We shared strategies for building a loyal community through consistent engagement, unique content, and newsletter marketing, and acknowledged the potential for increased readership and sales with subsequent books.
We also touched on choosing the right Amazon categories and keywords, the importance of building a community of authors for mutual support, and periodic book sales or price reductions.
Personal Update
Lainey shares a health update and also great feedback on first episode, including appreciation for the bakery analogy.
Lainey's debut novel, The Exit Strategy, wins 15th award four years after publication - shortlisted and a finalist in the Hawthorne Book Awards
Paulette Stout excitedly shares updates on her writing, editing, and marketing progress, including a new book awards for her latest book - What Eyes Can't See won the women's fiction category for the National Indie Excellence Award
Lainey plans to attend the Women's Fiction Writers Association retreat in Albuquerque and Author Nation conference in Las Vegas.
Book marketing strategies after release day with guest, Paulette Kennedy
Lainey Cameron, Paulette Stout and Paulette Kennedy discuss marketing books after release day.
Paulette Kennedy is a best-selling author known for her Gothic novels, including "The Witch of Tin Mountain" and "The Devil and Mrs. Davenport."
Book packaging and the importance of Amazon Categories & Keywords
Paulette Stout: Book packaging is crucial for marketing success.Foundational elements like book offers, description, and pricing must be right.
Book marketing strategies for indie authors, including post-launch refinements and targeting the right categories and keywords on Amazon.
Paulette Kennedy and Paulette Stout discusses post-launch book marketing strategies, including updating book descriptions and seeking blurbs from other authors.
Amazon uses categories and keywords to decide who to show books to readers. The importance of analyzing Amazon categories and keywords, and making changes based on sales data and market trends.
Indie authors have complete control over these elements, but it's hard to know which categories and keywords will work without data.
Mindset and taking the long term view
Once a book is published, data can be used to make changes and see how they impact sales.
Paulette Stout and Paulette Stout discuss community, including adjusting marketing tactics, and building a sustainable author career.
Paulette Kennedy shares their experience with slow-burning debuts and the importance of building a backlist to boost sales.
Post-book launch slump and how to handle it with patience and persistence.
Lainey Cameron shares insights on post-launch slump, advising authors to prepare for it and not get discouraged.
Paulette Stout discusses her experience with book sales, finding that her third book performed better after advertising.
The hosts emphasize the importance of community and writing, encouraging authors to keep creating despite setbacks.
Building author community and marketing strategies.
Paulette Kennedy built community through writing, Twitter, and newsletter, which helped launch their third book.
Lainey’s podcast and support group for authors have helped them connect with other writers and gain visibility.
Author newsletters, giveaways, and engagement strategies.
Paulette Kennedy shared successful marketing strategies, including themed reels and author giveaways.
Newsletter is a key focus for her, with high open rates and author collaborations.
She emphasized the importance of keeping subscribers engaged and valued, rather than dropping them off for low engagement.
Lainey Cameron agreed and stresses the significance of an author newsletter as a proven marketing tactic.
She newsletter giveaways to drive engagement, with a click-to-enter link for readers to enter giveaways.
Author Kerry Chaput creates content on TikTok based on historical female heroines, engaging readers in a topic of interest.
Post-launch book marketing strategies, including advertising and testing different approaches
Paulette Stout discussed the importance of targeting the right audience for book marketing, using Facebook ads and Amazon ads with the help of Heidi McIntyre.
Paulette Stout and Paulette Kennedy share their experiences with advertising, highlighting the importance of the right image and copy in targeting the right audience.
Paulette Stout emphasizes the importance of experimentation in advertising, suggesting that there's no substitute for trying different approaches and seeing what works best for each individual book and author.
Lainey Cameron agreed, highlighting the unpredictability of which ads will perform well and the need to test multiple options to find the best ones for a particular book and target audience.
Key is to consider ad testing, seasonality, and retailer outreach.
Refine ad strategies after book launch to maximize effectiveness.
Lainey shared a session from 20Books Conference in 2023 where one author showed how they spend $100,000/month on ads with simple, attention-grabbing images and minimal text.
Retailer and library outreach strategies after launch, including working with bookstores and libraries
Paulette Stout suggests reaching out to local bookstores and libraries for exposure and sales.
BookBub can help authors leverage their advertising dollars with book sellers and Amazon ads.
Paulette Stout discussed success with local fairs and in-person book selling, mentioning the importance of face-to-face interactions with readers.
Paulette Stout highlights the value of reaching out to libraries for author talks and book sales, despite their underfunding and understaffing.
Book marketing strategies, including building a community, networking, and leveraging resources.
Paulette Stout emphasizes the importance of author newsletters over social media.
Building relationships and paying it forward can help boost future book sales.
Paulette Kennedy emphasizes the importance of community and collaboration in book marketing.
Wrap-Up
Paulette Kennedy discussed their historical fiction books, including a recent release and an upcoming title set in the 1920s with a haunted art subplot.
Paulette Stout is excited about Paulette K’s new book and wants to read it soon.
Lainey suggests joining Paulette Kennedy’s newsletter for updates on new upcoming books.
Transcript
(Created with AI assistance, so please forgive any typos!)
Lainey Cameron 0:01
Hi, this is Lainey Cameron. And I'm here with my co host, Paulette Stout. And this is our second episode on the best of book marketing. And today's episode is kind of fun and special because we're going to talk about how to market your books after release day, right? We all read lots of checklists that say, you know, here's a lot of things to do to release your book and how to market your book. And then we get to take to write the book came out. And a lot of authors get me feedback that they're like, Well, what now? What do I do now? Am I done? What do I how do I market this thing? Now it's out in the world. And so we thought this was a big topic to address. And excitingly, we've got a special guest who's going to join us. We'll introduce her in a few minutes, but um, I think this is going to be such a great conversation.
Paulette Stout 0:44
I know I just love our guest. It's going to be fantastic. Update, Lainey, what is new for you? Lainey, what you got going on?
Lainey Cameron 0:58
So sorry about that. I had a little glitch there. Um, so Oh, my goodness. Since we last talked in our first episode, my life has been a S- H -I -T show. I will be honest with you, tt's not been a fun last month. So since we last talked in our first episode, and I'll tell you some good stuff at the end of this. But let's see, my mom fell and broke her shoulder the same weekend, my stepdad fell and broke his knee, we canceled our trip to Europe so we could care for them. My mom's floors fell apart in her house and the entire house floors need replaced before we can sell it. And I had a monster Crohn's flare up. And I've been in the ER once or twice over the last month. So what a mess, it has been. It's not been fun. I've been super, super sick, which is really frustrating because you don't own all of your own productivity when you're in a scenario where you've got a flare up and you're sick.
But two really cool things have happened during that time. The first is we got phenomenal feedback on the first episode that we did for the best of book marketing. I think I personally had four different debut authors, email or direct message me to tell me how helpful it was to them. Specifically, I think it was your bakery analogy. I mean, I know you didn't invent talked about an existing. Yeah, I agree. But the bakery and the idea that like not everything depends on the moment of your first book coming out, right? Like you're building a career over time and what that means. And so if you haven't listened to the episode, it's well worth going back and listening to our first episode. But we got such great feedback. I even had one author reach out to me to have you help them with marketing as a result of that episode. And so super, super excited. And then the second thing is my own debut, which came out four years ago now next month, won its 15th award. It was selected for the shortlist. And then for the finalist in the hall as a finalist in the Hawthorne Book Awards, which is a fairly prestigious Book Award. So that was a lovely little kick four years later to have that happen. So in a rival fashion, garbage. So what about you, Colette, I believe I saw several Book Awards, not just one, but several for your latest?
Paulette Stout 3:01
Well, yeah, well, um, yesterday was a big day, I found out that I won the women's fiction category for the National indie Excellence Award. So that was really exciting. Everyone was super engaged online yesterday, thank you so much, everyone who reached out with emails and texts in comments, it just just was filled with love yesterday. Feel the Love. And that's and also just really in the throes of finishing my second edit on my next work in progress. What we give away, which comes out in February 25, it goes to the editor next week, it's always like you feel the editor so far away, and then it's like on you. So I'm just kind of cramming to get it done. And I'm super excited to have located a sensitivity reader for this. This has been so hard the book touches on disordered eating and body size. And it's been a little bit challenging getting someone to read it, but I reach out to the Massachusetts eating disorder Association, and they are going to be helping me so I'm super excited to get like a input from someone on the draft at a point where I can always just, you know, make things better. And I running some new Facebook ads, you know, they're paying for themselves, which is always like a miracle. So yeah, so lots of stuff going on, and all good stuff.
Lainey Cameron 4:22
And we said one thing we mentioned at the beginning, because we've had this question from people that we're, authors were connected to and viewers. We've been asked about podcast. We've been asked about my earbuds fell out, go figure. Still haven't got the sizing, right. We've been asked about conferences and is there an opportunity to see us or meet us anywhere through the rest of the year. And so I just wanted to mention in a moment all my reshuffling of my plans which has been a lot of reshuffling, I was able to carve a time that I will be at the Women's Fiction Writers Association retreat in Albuquerque at the beginning of September. If anyone is considering that one. It's going to be amazing Angela Ackerman is going to be she's the person behind the emotions the source the emotional wounds, the source really great series of books for writers. She's going to be giving the sessions. Yeah, I love these books like oh my god, the emotion stars. character trait the star as the patient was the stars, they're phenomenal. Phenomenal. I put the link in the end up page for the podcast here in the episode page. But so she's got a speaker there now change your plans at the first week of September, I am going to be there. And then I'm also going to author nation, which is the new version of what used to be called the 20 books conference in Las Vegas. And that's at the beginning of November. And I know Paulette,you went to some conferences early in the year, nothing committed through the end of the year, right?
Paulette Stout 5:42
Yeah, now with the change in speaker for Albuquerque like I'm fizzing, I wanna go so I'll see. I just went back to work full time so I really, you know, have a lot on my plate right now. So if I can make it happen, I will make it happen. But I hope to get to Albuquerque, but I'm not for sure for sure just yet. So um, so great. So that is our intro section for today.
And we're super excited to introduce our amazing guest, which is Paulette Kennedy. Paulette Kennedy is the best selling author of the Witch of Tin Mountain. The Devil and Mrs. Davenport which is ridiculously phenomenal y'all. The Parting of the v]Veil which received the prestigious HNS review Editor's Choice award. Paulette began her lifelong obsession with the Gothic, introduced her to the Bronte's as a teenager and her affinity for fog covered landscapes and haunted heroines only grew and inspired her to become a writer. Originally from the Missouri Ozarks, she now lives with her family and menagerie of rescue pets in sunny Southern California. Welcome, Paulette, and great to have you.
Paulette Kennedy 7:01
Thank you. It's so good to be here. Thanks, ladies.
Lainey Cameron 7:08
While we have her, do you, are there any good historical fiction conferences that you go to?
Paulette Kennedy 7:12
Yes, HNS North America is every other year here in the States. And so I went last year and I'm going next year. It'll be in Vegas next year. So that's the next big conference I have coming up. I did. I just WriteHive their online conference last weekend. So I was a panelist for that one. But I don't have any big conferences coming up until next year.
Lainey Cameron 7:37
Cool. Well, let's get into our conversation here because we're going to talk about this question of how do you market the books after the launch? And we kind of split it into topics to organize ourselves a little bit here. And I think the first topic that we had, that you had suggested, Lette. Oh, by the way, because we two Paulettes in case you didn't notice on this episode, we have Paulette Kennedy and Paulette Stout, which is entirely confusing, I.'m going to refer to Paulette Stout just for this episode as Lette and Paulette Kennedy as Paulette just so we don't confuse the heck out of ourselves. Isn't it fun to have two Paulette's at once? Let's get into our first topic, which let had suggested that we talk first about book packaging, because this is one of those things that you don't know it until you get out there and learn. And then you can make tweaks, but it's hard to get it all right up front. I think well, you can disagree with me. But I think it's hard. And so we're gonna start with this topic of book packaging and maybe Lette, do you want to like lead us off here?
Paulette Stout 8:32
Yeah, sure. I think that when it comes to book marketing, sometimes people forget about the importance of how your book is presented to the marketplace. And and when you sending people to your, your, your retailer page to your website, whatever, if your, if your book packaging is off, you're basically just throwing your money down the sewer, because you're sending people to a place that kind of isn't ready for primetime, you know if your book cover's wrong, if your book description is not what it should be, even if your your pricing is maybe out of line with what the marketplace is looking for, you know, it's just you have to get those foundational elements right. Before you go, I don't know Paulette what your thoughts are?
Paulette Kennedy 9:17
Yeah, I totally agree. Your cover design, all of your marketing fonts on your cover are so important people being able to see your name and the book title on a thumbprint size because if they're just glancing through Amazon or whatnot, and the image is small, if your title and your author name doesn't stand out, sometimes they can't tell what the book is even about or who wrote it. So those are all very important things.
Lainey Cameron 9:48
Oh, I was just gonna say Lette, sometimes you can't tell until you run ads and do other things that it's not performing the way you thought it would. Right? And so I know you had some experience Lette with your first two books in the series where, you know, they kind of got little miss- categorized as romance and then you had some challenges with the covers as a result. I don't know if you want to talk about that. But like, those are things you couldn't really know until your book was in the world, right?
Paulette Stout 10:08
Yeah, for sure any in. It's interesting. Also, you know how your book presents, if it's in a series or standalones. I know, Paulette, that you your books, I think they're standalone, right, so that your book covers are very different from each other. So I didn't know if you want to talk a little bit about the work that you've done to kind of create a whole cohesive author platform, but with different, like standalone titles.
Paulette Kennedy 10:30
Sure, um, well, I'm traditionally published by Lake Union publishing, so they do a lot of my marketing as far as like my cover design, although I do have a lot of input there, which is really great. And I love having all of that involvement from the beginning, with the title and everything. Although with Parting the Veil, the title changed significantly from what I originally pitched the book. So I always kind of defer to the marketing team, in my area of publishing, just because I feel like they know what they're doing more than I do.
But with each book, I would say my brand is, there's always a little bit of romance and all of my books, they're not romances. They're not category romances. But there's always a romantic subplot. They're all Gothic. They're all very atmospheric. And there are similar themes and all of my books, which helped to unify everything, even though each one stands alone. So there are themes of loss, grief, found family of sisterhood, sisterhood is a big one, and especially with my fourth book that's coming out next year, it's a huge theme, and that one, and so there are unifying themes throughout all three books, that kind of work to give me a brand, I would say. And that's kind of what I look at, whenever I'm starting to think about what I'm going to pitch. Next is, how does it fit in with the rest of my catalog?
Paulette Stout 11:58
Yeah, I think that's so important. Because I think that when sometimes people like they finish a book and they go to market it, you know, there's a lot of thinking that has to happen earlier. And like it has to happen when you're writing, how does this fit into my, you know, my, my catalog of books? How does this fit into the marketplace? How does this relate to what the types of stories that people are looking for on the genre I write so there are a lot of there's a lot of that strategic thinking that should happen a little earlier in the process before you just come back? Okay, my books done. I'm gonna go market it.
Lainey Cameron 12:31
But Lette, I mean, we're talking about what you can do after the book comes out. And I know that you in particular, like, since your first book came out, I believe you've changed the cover multiple times, I believe you've changed the blurb the book description more than once, I think, like, can you talk to us a little bit about that, and why it was after the launch, as opposed to before getting everything 100%? Right before the first came out?
Paulette Stout 12:54
Right? Because I think it's so much of it, it's about the data you have you know, you you're making some assumptions about what readers want, and what the marketplace is looking for, before you launch and then when you get out, that's when you can see how is the book resonating? What are the reviews saying? What are? What are the categories that you're showing up with, because Amazon is going to look at the people who buy your book, and, and don't and they're going to kind of put you where they think you have a chance of success.
So all those things kind of triangulate, you can see hmm, you know, can I make, you know, can I update the beginning, maybe you get a book award or you get a nice blurb from someone and you want to add that in to create some, some social validation, you know, so there's little things I'm always tweaking my book descriptions, like I'm in there a lot. Like I don't change my categories and keywords often, but book descriptions, you know, I just changed it last week, again, because I had a little quote at the top, notice the sales dip, just a teeny bit, and I changed it back to something else. And then the sales went like up so like you can test and measure. And that's something that happens after launch. So that's, I think, a big reason why all of these little refinements, especially like on the indie side can happen post launch. I'm not sure how that works for you post launch pilot.
Paulette Kennedy 14:09
Yeah, I'm kind of limited on what I can do as far as like changing my meta tags and my book description and stuff. That's more of my publishers marketing team, that's their area, but I'm definitely blurbs I'm very active about seeking out blurbs from other authors. And I was really lucky with The Devil and Mrs. Davenport. Most people just volunteered blurbs for me because I had blurb them. And you know, I built relationships. And that's something I definitely want to talk about today is how important it is to build connections and relationships in this industry, not necessarily as part of your marketing strategy, although it helps.
But yeah, I just really try to always be looking forward for myself as a traditionally published author about I'm looking at the market and what's popular and you can kind of angle how you approach your marketing was what the marketing like right now romantasy is really, really trending. So like for my next book, I'm going to be pushing kind of that there is a little bit of a romantic fantasy element to my next book, even though it's not categorically a romantic fantasy. So there are ways that you can kind of examine the market and see how your book might resonate with what is trending, and target your marketing and accordance.
Lainey Cameron 15:29
And I'd love to add, I'd love to add a couple of words about what Paulette was saying about Amazon categories, etc, some context for the authors who are maybe a little newer to this and don't have the background here. So when you put your book up on Amazon, let's, for a second talk about an indie author, because as an indie author, you have complete control over this and like Paulette is saying, if you're with a big publisher, some of this is done by your publisher, and you may not be controlling it. But so let me just take the indie author example. Okay.
So when you put your book up on Amazon, you are choosing keywords, and you are choosing categories to put your book in, you actually get three on the ebook side and three on the book side. And you're also putting a book description or blurb up there, ultimately, you can fill out your editorial section, too. And the reason why all of these things matter, in particular, your categories and keywords. Amazon uses those to decide who to put the book in front of. So if you say that you're in a particular category, Amazon, hopefully is going to show the book to people who have said they liked that category.
Now, if you're a reader, you're going well, you mean I said I like that category? Well, the way you told Amazon, you liked that category is you bought books and that category in the past and you clicked on books in that category in the past. Okay, so Amazon knows that Lainey Cameron loves to read romance to see let's say, okay, very smart. They got a big data engine, they know that I love that they even know that I like romantasy books with Oh, give me an example Paulette, wherewolves them. Are there wherewolves?.
Paulette Kennedy 16:45
Yeah, wherevolves, shapeshifters.
Lainey Cameron 16:47
Okay, oh, yeah, exactly. They know that I like shapeshifters. Okay. And so now, Paulette, in her keywords for her book has put that her book has shapeshifters in it. And it's a romantasy book in the categorization. And so Amazon is hopefully going to show that to me as a reader. Now, if it turns out that Paulette's book doesn't actually have a good description that matches that, and the reader, when they are presented that book, they don't click through, and they don't buy it, then what happens is Amazon, Amazon goes, ooh, this book is not good for those readers, I won't show it to people anymore.
And then when we're talking about the algorithm, that's what we mean is the algorithm is smart enough to go, oh, look, Paulette said this book was this. And when I showed it to a reader in that category, they clicked through, and they bought it. So let's do that more, because I'll get more sales as Amazon, right. So that's how categories and keywords play in, you want the right ones that when you're in that category, the reader actually does click through and buy.
Because if you put yourself in a category, that might be a brilliant selling category, but nobody's buying your book, because it doesn't really fit, you've done yourself a huge disservice. And some of these things are hard to know without data right? Before your book comes out, you can take your best educated guess what category it should be in. And hopefully the readers in that category will like it. But this is what Lette was saying until you can actually, for example, run an ad and see whether that actually turns to be true, you don't know for sure, you're just making your best educated guess. And then once your book is out, no, you have real data. And you can see that your sales go up or down based on putting it in a particular category, based on particular keywords.
And so it's not quite that like cut and dry that you can actually go and see like this keyword lead to the sale, but you can change things. And then you can look at the results of the change on your sales and your results. So that's what I was talking about there is that's why those things matter. And you can do things after the book is out. And yes, this totally changes by publishing model.
Paulette Stout 18:31
Exactly and I'm sorry to belabor this, but if you think of a book, you go to market, you think it's gonna appeal to a certain group of readers. And then you find that maybe those readers aren't responding as well. But this other group of readers is really stepping up, you know, then you could potentially pivot kind of how you're describing the book, you can change on the counters, you change the keywords, you can change the book description, you can you know, even change the your visuals on social or whatever, you know, how you're describing it in your social posts, and your advertising you run and to try to get the right people. So it's all about just trying to get the right people.
Lainey Cameron 19:07
And we're going to talk a little bit more about advertising, I will make sure we come back on Paulette's concept of like community because it's very something Lette and I are very passionate about. But let's talk first about mindset because I know that this is one that you said, let's make sure we talk about mindset. And this idea. We talked about it in the first podcast episode of taking a long term view. Do you want to lead us off again? Paulette, and then we'll sorry, Lette and then we'll ask Paulette to add her thoughts.
Paulette Stout 19:33
Yeah, for sure. I think that the important part of your is to remember, you know, this whole episode is about what do you do after a book launch. And you know, book launch was a very limited amount of time to depending on how you view it but you know, you know, within a few months or weeks or whatever. And the life of the book, it'll live forever. So you have if you kind of get all wound around the axle because your book isn't just launching really stratospherically in first few days after lunch and you're, you know, you're checking your data or you're, you know, seeing what the response is, you know, you're kind of doing yourself a disservice. And that's, that's, you want to set yourself up to have a sustainable author career. You know, I think most people probably listening to this podcast would have, you know, a little bit like, we're not just gonna write one book, they're gonna write multiple books. So I'd love to know pull out what you think about you know how you prepare yourself for that initial flurry around launch. And then, you know, sometimes people get a little sad, they get a little defeated this post launch blues. How do you handle that?
Paulette Kennedy 20:35
Oh, this was a topic that I'm passionate about too, because my debut it did okay. But it was a slow burn. When my second book launched, it did really well because of some advertising that my publisher did. And it boosted my debut. My debut ended up outselling what it did at launch because of my second book. So my, my frontlist sold my backlist, and it's continuing to do so. And that's what I always tell newer authors who are debuting it's because that day after Christmas feeling happens, you know, after launch sometimes and you're like, I was really hoping it would do better. But you're you're building something, you're you're building your list, you're building your readership, you're learning how to target your marketing to your readers. And all of that comes with time. And it comes with patients too. You have to be patient about it, because some people do break out big with their first book. But the majority of us don't, the majority of us I one of my friends told me, usually book four tends to be the one where your readership really starts to show up for you and carry you with your publishing career to where they'll buy anything that you write after that. And so I think that is something to keep in mind whenever you have that day after Christmas, or that letdown after launch is like, I'm building something, it might take me a couple more books, it might take me a couple more years to get there. But I will.
Lainey Cameron 22:10
I think that the day after Christmas analogy is actually really good. I mean, I think of it as a January, right, like, like you have all this lead up to the holiday season. And you've got like, you know, the Christmas and the New Year party and all the parties and the things. And then you get to like January third, and the weather is horrible, and nobody's going out anymore. And we're all broke, because we spent all our money on Christmas presents or holiday presents of some type. And it's like the worst time, right and like, you're just like, Oh, God, and now we're going to do new year's resolutions like. So I do think it's a little similar that there's so much build up to that lunch day. And then it's January 3, and you're like, well, not only nothing's happening anymore, but also the weather's horrible. So it's a real known thing, for those of you who haven't yet brought out your first book, this post launch slump slump is a real thing that many authors have been through. And I always, for the people in my marketing program, I tried to warn them just so that they don't like get hit sideways by it because they didn't see it coming. So sometimes just knowledge of like that happens to many, many slash most authors is like helpful just to know that, like, prepare for it, like book yourself a spa day, a few days after your launch so that you can go, you know, have some things on your calendar to do that or not sitting looking at your computer screen and looking at your Amazon ranking.
Paulette Stout 23:20
So let's get to this quickly. Because Paulette said something really important that her first book sold better after her second book. So I when my second book came out, you know, the thematic the I think it maybe wasn't 100% with the market. It's a great book, and people love it. But it's not something maybe they would run out to choose potentially. But now that the third book is out, and that is responding well from advertising, I'm getting like Paulette said the read through to the first second book, based on the advertising that people read the third one, they go back to me the other. So it's again back to that long term view, you know, don't despair. If your books aren't all tell, or they don't respond as well to advertising. My book, too, didn't respond as well to advertising as my book three. They may just happen that way. But does it mean that you know all is lost for your buckets that just sit back down to the keyboard and keep writing?
Lainey Cameron 24:16
And um, Paulette, I know you wanted to talk about community and like I said, we feel very passionately. But that's part of why we're doing this podcast is to help other others. Why don't you Why don't you go there right now. I think that's a really important topic.
Paulette Kennedy 24:28
Well, building community it started a long time ago for me like back way back in 2016. Whenever I first started getting back into my writing, being a major focus for me, I started getting involved on Twitter, with the writing community and such. And so I built a lot of friendships back then, and I still have most of those friends and we're all places right now in our publishing career. But we've all maintain that friendship. And then you know, as my first book published, authors who blurbed me came from and it just kept growing. And so there's like the that is author focused, right? So you meet, isn't you, you gain companionship that way, and colleagues who will support you and you support them. And that's huge. It really is worth the time and effort that you spent to do so.
And then there's a building community with your readers, and learning how to communicate with your readers. And social media is a big part of that. But also like your newsletter, that's a huge way that I communicate with my readers, and building that kind of community. Like there are things in my newsletter that only my subscribers ever read about or know about or gain access to. And I think that that makes it a little bit more special. And so just taking the time like every day, just to kind of check in with your community and see how everybody's doing it, and helping people in helping people feel noticed. And being there for your friends. And they'll be there for you. It really does work out that way.
And it's beautiful, that that's what carried the launch of my third book, I can tell you that 100% was the author, community and my readers showing up for me because I, I did have a publicist for that book. And she got me a lot of really great placements. But honestly, most of the really great placements that I got came from just me having built those relationships, like with podcast hosts, and such, who really pushed in and say, Hey, let's talk about your book, let's get you scheduled for the show. And because I had been supportive, and I showed up for them in the past, and so my publisher was was absolutely wonderful. She got me so many great placements. And I'm very grateful. But like, there's, there's something to be said with just that organic growth that you get by just continuing to show up for people.
Lainey Cameron 26:57
Absolutely, most of my appearances like I was just on a site last week and one the week before or four years after my book came out. And it's because other authors say oh, you should talk to Lainey she has something to say on that topic. And that's how I ended up like I'm not, I don't have a publicist. I've never had a publicist. And yet I get invited to things because I'm referred by other authors. So I think that's a really good example. And, you know, why am I being referred by other authors because I've run a podcast for other authors called The Best of Women's Fiction because I do everything I can to uplift and support other authors.
If anyone doesn't know this, I run a writer's support group on Thursday nights on Zoom every Thursday night. We're on hiatus over the summer, we'll be back in September, I'll put the information in the in the notes if you'd like to join us beautiful way to connect with other writers every Thursday night Paulette has been let has been a part of that for a long time. And that's actually how we know each other mostly right, we met at the WFQA event in Albuquerque, and then we knew each other through this online group, and so 100% agree with everything you said Paulette Kennedy.
Paulette Kennedy 27:51
Thank you.
Lainey Cameron 27:53
So let's see, I think we're gonna switch now to our little segment in the show where we have our sponsored segment, which isn't actually a sponsored segment. So last month, we talked about the fact that Paulette and I both offer marketing services for authors, Paulette offers indie author consulting. If you're indie publishing your book, and you need a hand just with a walkthrough of how to do it, she has very limited time right now, we said this last month because she has a full time job. And I have a program for authors called 12 Weeks to Book Launch Success, where I walk you through everything you need to successfully launch your book over 12 weeks. And by the end of that you have a full marketing plan.
But we wanted to point out today that we are open to having a sponsor for the podcast, it would have to be someone who offers relevant services or products to writers. And it would have to be someone that we feel comfortable is someone we would recommend someone or a team or an organization that we would recommend we're not gonna bring on a sponsor will actually pull that let's tell them what we got, we got an email from cat t shirts.com, who wanted to sit let them sponsor with Cat Cat themed T shirts. And we're like, I don't think so. So we're not doing cat T shirts.
But if you have a service for writers, whether it's editing, whether it's something around marketing books, we are building an audience here, we're only in our second episode, and you have a chance to get in on the ground floor as a sponsor, which means you'll show up and all the early episodes when people go and listen through our back catalogue. So and we're not going to charge you very much money right now, because we're just new and starting. So it's actually a really amazing opportunity that I hope someone is going to take us up on. But like I said, we're going to be cautious about who it is we're not going to have anyone on the podcast that we don't believe in that we don't trust. That's one of the guidelines that Paulette and I set for ourselves as Co- hosts.
So just to say that and also if you're looking for a place that you can sponsor to get the word out about your book, and it's in particular relevant to women, the Women Writers Women's Books Facebook page and site is one of the places where we actually broadcast this with the help of Barbara Bos and I know I have done a sponsorship of that site in the past I know Paulette has. A great awareness opportunity if you're looking for a way to do that and we'll put the link again in the show notes and thank you to Barbara Bos for broadcasting as they are we really appreciate it. An extra way to get out Two writers on help them. So that's it. That's the extent of our podcast sponsored segment. Let's get back to our topics and get real tactical though, I think we want to move into talking about specific marketing tactics that make sense after the launch. And so maybe I'll have Paulette Kennedy lead us off this time, if you're comfortable with that, like, what are you do after the launch in terms of specific things.
Paulette Kennedy 30:24
One of the things that I did with this last launch that I felt was kind of successful and true, I did it for like the first two weeks after launch, so I didn't continue it. But I will probably pick it up again, at some point, I did themed reels, they were cooking videos that were 1950s recipes. And it was really fun. And I think when it comes to social media marketing, especially you want to do something that kind of stands out, and that's unique. And I decided to do something a little bit different. Instead of just like getting on a reel and talking about my book The whole time, I featured recipes that my main character Loretta might have made as a housewife in the 1950s. And those reels, got a lot of views. So that was something specific that I did. Another thing is, with my newsletter, I tend to do a lot of I do giveaways with my newsletter, but I feature author friends. And so I rotate through and I feature different books every month, and a lot of the time, my giveaways will have my book and then but I'll also have my author friends books in them as well. So they're getting books that are kind of adjacent to what I write, and it's introducing them to new authors. And they're always very well I have like an open rate of 60 to 70% on my newsletters depending on the month. And so I spend most of my marketing energy on my newsletter, I would say probably at least 30% to 40% of my month is spent like planning my newsletter and what I'm going to put in my newsletter. And that has has paid off for me, I think, especially for big things with like cover reveals and launch week and whatnot, I do see it move the needle a little bit.
So I would. that would be the advice that I would give to authors is just build your build your mailing list, build your subscription list your readers, because they're volunteering to stay, they're there. They want to be there. They want to hear from you. If they didn't, they would unsubscribe and people do unsubscribe, that's just part of having newsletter. But there are some giveaways that I've done post launch groups with other authors, some really big ones. Heather Stottlemyre does a really good group. And I have gained subscribers for that. But again, with your newsletter, if what you're producing in your newsletter isn't necessarily appealing, then those people will leave. So it's like you have to keep them once you get them. And so that you keep them by offering them something unique.
And that I think has been, the biggest thing for me is just finding something unique, a unique angle, to continue to market and talk about your book, without belaboring the whole process, because I used to just like make a graphic on Canva and just throw it up on my socials. And I still do that sometimes, too, because I think that's important for visibility. But I think relating to your audience is even more important, especially when it comes to social media and newsletters.
Paulette Stout 33:31
That's great. A lot of what you're talking about is about adding value, you know, providing value to your reader. So when you're giving things away, we are introducing them when you're making funny recipes. That's all social content that's adding value to your community. So definitely hear you there. I have a question for you about your newsletter, if you don't mind, because it just you spent so much time on it. Do you call your lists, you know, of people who are not engaged, you drop them off and try to keep it a really high engagement list? Or do you kind of keep them on because every person has the potential to be a reader at some point.
Paulette Kennedy 34:07
I keep them on just because I know how Google can be with putting things into spam. And if they only open it once or interact with it once that will bring it back out of spam and they're more likely to see it the next month. So I don't go through and actively call people. I would say the thing that I do is I get a lot of emails, like in response to my newsletter post whenever I send them out. Like I'll respond, I'll make sure I respond to those readers who take the time to email me. And you know, it's that whole thing of, of making people feel seen making people feel special because they are special. I mean, without every single one of our readers, we wouldn't be here we wouldn't be able to do what we do. So I really try to keep that attitude in mind that, you know, they don't have to be here. They want to be here. And that's that's a huge thing to be grateful for.
Lainey Cameron 35:05
Right? I have a couple of things to add to your newsletters. So I tell the people in my marketing class that if you're going to do one thing as an author, one marketing tactic, your author newsletter is it. So whether it's an author newsletter, or substack, it's actually funny because I tell them that social media is optional, but the newsletter is not.
So interestingly, I take the perspective that social media you can choose whether or not to do but your newsletter as an author, I really, really want you to go get one and put the time in. And that's the number one tactic that has been proven to pay off for authors over time. So 100% agree with you really glad you said that Paulette.
And I do some things in my newsletter to try and drive engagement where I do giveaways of other authors books. So my newsletter list at this point, my author newsletter list is about 8500 subscribers. And I've built that through a combination of giveaways with other authors through the signup through the pop ups on my website through different things, a lot of them came from giveaways. And one of the things I do is monthly, I do a giveaway of another author's book, which lets me feature that book and talk about that book and show my own review and what my experience reading that book was. And then I have a one click to enter, where they don't have to go fill in a form or anything, they just have to click on a link and I will put them in the giveaway for that book. And that helps me get a great client click and engagement link right lit rate on my newsletters, because people just have to do one click. But for Google, it shows that people actually clicked on something in my newsletter and interacted with them. And then I just take that list it makes basically throws them into a group. And I take that group of you know, let's say 200 authors who clicked on the link, sorry, 200 readers to clicked on the link, and I choose my giveaway person from that. So that's one way that I've been able to try and drive up engagement.
And then I had another example from a different author. And I bet you know her, Paulette Do you know KerryI'm gonna say her name wrong Kerry Chaput? She also writes historical fiction she's lovely. So similar to your example of finding the recipes and finding that value or you're going to bring something that engages your audience. She's did a whole series, I believe she's still doing it on like famous women and unsung female hero hero heroines in history. And she puts them up on Tik Tok, and, like her books are a boat on some female heroines in history. But she's done a whole series on other ones, you know, all the ones she finds researching who she's not written a book about? Yeah. But it's a great way to engage with people who are interested in that topic, who then might be interested in her books, because she writes about unsung female heroines and history. And so I think that's a really equivalent thing to your recipe thing where you're engaging people in a topic area that's of interest to you. And it's fun for her, I think to do that, because she's already doing the research is ready finding these, so maybe we'll have her on Sunday to talk about it. But I thought that was another interesting example of exactly what you're talking about.
Paulette Stout 37:35
That's hilarious. You thought of Kerry, because when Paulette was talking about her recipes, Kerry popped to mind immediately because of that series that she does about the human history. So if you haven't checked out hers books, check them out, y'all.
Lainey Cameron 37:49
Awesome, Paulette. Do you wanna, Lette, do you want to add anything else on this topic of marketing tactics? I think we wanted, for example, to talk about advertising, which is something that you have more experienced with as an indie author. And I'm guessing that Paulette Kennedy probably hasn't done much advertising because you were the big publisher. Would that be a good guess that you probably haven't done unless you're there.
Paulette Kennedy 38:09
No, I haven't done a lot of paid advertising. I do occasionally run ads on Instagram that's been about the extent of like my paid apart from like, joining like the big marketing, like giveaway type group marketing emails. I've done that before and paid for it. But yeah, not Not really. Yeah.
Lainey Cameron 38:27
So it's a good example of it's different with a big publisher where they're control things, and it's up to them versus an indie or smaller publisher, but Paulette Stout, I know you have done advertising. And it's something that's definitely the after the launch, right? Yeah,
Paulette Stout 38:39
Like for me, it's if you know, it's really a very close correlation between when the ads are running and when they're not running and what I'm selling. I mean, it's there's so many books published a month, and especially on Amazon, where they favor recency, in terms of their algorithmic they give you a boost for like the first month, then you kind of hit the Amazon cliff that people talk about, you know, once that month is out, because they're on to the new people. So I find paid advertising, I use Facebook ads, I have used Amazon at other times, some books work well in both Some work better for Amazon some brothers, I've done a little dabbled in book club a little bit.
But I find that the more you kind of test it and see what works I'm getting some help from my from the amazing Heidi McIntyre look her up, y'all, she's amazing. I'm helping me a little bit with my ads. And you know, she's all into the data. And it's so interesting how much there are certain ways you can target that you can't target but apparently, the image you use on your ads is can is really critically important to finding the right people because they Facebook uses the image very heavily in their targeting. So having that right image, you know, having some copy that you know, tells the story.
There's you know, you've I think you've heard of people because you know, Personal fantasies, universal fantasies, these common ways of, you know, themes of books that are very relatable and universal. So it's, you know, fighting against the odds or you know, lost loves, or you know, just different types of themes. And if you can key on those in your advertising, it makes it very relatable to people. You can experiment with your graphics, if you have the book image, if you have people, if you have words on your picture, if you don't have words, new picture, if you have, like, you know, just testing, and it's such a sophisticated algorithm. There are a lot of different schools and classes you can take about this. But there's just no substitute for just getting out there and putting your book out and trying because no matter what you hear online or from us, we don't You don't know what's going to work for you and your book and your genre, and your packaging, and your goals. Like everything is different. So it's super sucky to hear go try it and see how it goes. But that's, that's the big answer for some of this post launch strategies is no dabbling in advertising and see what works for you.
Lainey Cameron 41:08
Yeah, I mean, I think it with both Facebook and Amazon Pay Per Click ads, you really can't know what ads going to perform until you try it. Like Like, I actually just had a conversation with another author who was looking at BookBub ads, and those can actually scale pretty fast on the cost. So I always caution people with BookBub ads. And she was thinking that she had this perfect ad, she had this one. And she sent it to me to ask what I thought of her ad, right? Like, this is my picture. This is my copy. I'm gonna run with this on button, put money against it. What do you think? And my answer to her was? No, no, no, you're gonna run the 10 ads and find out which one works you do not know there is no way to guess up front.
And I did BookBub ads myself. And interestingly, it was not the ones that I thought were the best the best performed, it was completely the ones I thought were the suckiest that actually had the best and had the most clicks and performed the best and big with BookBub. You can target specific authors followings. And it was interesting that it wasn't the authors who've given me blurbs who had similar books, there was actually a different set of authors that ended up performing better for me when I targeted them.
It tended to be lesser known debut authors and I couldn't see that coming before I tried it. I would have thought that the author who gave me a blurb that I have an ad that says you know, Rochelle Weinstein says this book is awesome. And I target Rochelle Weinstein's followers, logically you think the ad would play. Well, no, it was terrible. Rochelle Weinstein's followers love Rochelle Weinstein, it doesn't really mean they wanna hear from anybody else. And so it was really interesting that I would have guessed it all wrong. And so I think that's 100% agree.
And I don't know if it is unfortunate, because you do not have to spend a ton of money to test you do not have to go spend hundreds and hundreds of dollars, you can test with very low amounts of money to see which creatives which ads, which targeting works for you. And that's true for BookBub. It's true for Facebook, it's true for Amazon ads. And so yeah, I think that message is a very important one that says, Don't think you can know the answer up front. And obviously, you can't know the answer before you publish, this is something you're going to work on refining after your book is at the door. And it's a unique opportunity after your book is at the door.
Paulette Stout 43:00
Yeah, and the other piece of this is that just because something works for a point in time, doesn't mean it'll continue working indefinitely. That way, you know, all these things have cycles, and you'll have an ad or something that will work really well then it'll just paint going to replace it. So it is something that needs some husbandry as you go along, keeping track of it a little bit, some and just understand the picadillo. Like you said, you know, BookBub and Facebook will spend the money, you give them money, they will spend it, you know, whereas Amazon, you might have trouble spending your money because your strategy isn't right, your bids aren't right, you're targeting the wrong people. It's really competitive time of year, all those types of things. I think also just briefly, in terms of marketing, I don't think we have it on our list today. But seasonality is also really important to to keep in mind for when your book is launching and how much competition is going on in the marketplace at that time for advertising, because that can be make your ads more or less effective.
Lainey Cameron 43:55
And I have a resource tip for advertising. So I was at the 20 books to 50k, the 20 books conference last November. And they had a whole track on advertising where authors were sharing in great detail like the exact creative and the exact ads they were they ran and what worked and what didn't and what they learned along the way. And all of the presentations are online on YouTube from last year if you want to watch some of that, and they're all free on the 20 books account.
And if you're considering going to this year's conference, if you're trying to go deep on advertising, that would be a good conference to go at go to the conference now called Author Nation, because I expected I'll have a similar deep deep dive on advertising type topics coming from an indie perspective, right? That's an indie conference, some small publisher authors go maybe less relevant if you're a big publisher author who doesn't have control of that.
But if you're an indie author, and you want to go deep and learn, like what works for other authors on ads, what struck me in the sessions I attended there was one with an author I'm sorry, I can't remember his name right now but who was running like oh my god, I think he was spending $100,000 a month on ads, and his ads were insanely simple. I'll see if I can find the name and put it in the in the in the link to the YouTube video specific video I'm talking about. His ads were insanely simple. He literally had like a one image of a car blowing up and it said, If you love Jenna Ivanovic, this is your next rate. That was it. That was the entire ad. And it worked incredibly well because if you love Jenna Ivanovic, you love the fact that there's always a car that blows up and agenda Ivanovic novel and hear you're being told that there's someone else you can reach who's not John Ivanovic, who will give you that same experience. And so that was like his number one ad that he used as an example. And what struck me and his and all the other sessions was how insanely simple those ads were, it was one very attention grabbing image, and less than 10 words of text.
Okay, so we're almost at the end of our time here. And I think the other one we wanted to touch on is retailer and library outreach. Is there anything we can share around what makes sense after the launch? In terms of working with retailers, bookstores, libraries, any other kind of outlets? I mean, pull that stuff out, you want to lead us off? Do anything to share in there?
Paulette Stout 46:00
Yeah, I mean, I think it's, um, if you're on on the indie side of YouTube, a lot of your sales online, each retailer has it, team are usually a person who is in charge of their marketing promotion. So it's really, it'd be a good to kind of, you know, learn who that person is to get in touch with them. So that you can say, hey, I could comment on your book. You can do consider me for promotions you have going on, I work with people directly digital a couple years ago to do a group, a group carousel that they put up on smashwords, on the homepage for women's fiction day, and we had a whole bunch of women fiction authors. So they're interested in hearing from authors and working with authors. So I'm the online side for sure. And then on the local side.
Lainey Cameron 46:44
What is a retailer just for people who don't understand when you say?
Paulette Stout 46:49
Yeah, I mean, that would be, you know, like, you know, Amazon, Apple draft to digital Kobo places that sell books, you know, Barnes and Noble, they have retailers too. And, you know, around the globe, I'm sure you know, other things. So, I think that there are ways to do it on a larger scale like that. And also at a local scale, like, I can sign up my local bookstore, you know, it's reaching out to bookstores one by one. Sometimes that that you can get some sell through there, I'm not sure I'll pull out but your thoughts are on either of those?
Paulette Kennedy 47:26
Well, I think a lot of it with retailers and such depends on BookBub, I feel like is a good way to kind of leverage a little bit of your advertising dollars to with booksellers and Amazon ads to I unfortunately, out as much luck with independent bookstores in my area being willing to carry my book. And that's partially because of who publishes me.
But I do know that independent bookstores will order books. And so I try to build a relationship with independent bookstores. And I love in stores, myself, and libraries as well. One of the things that I love about the last is like getting those reviews with book list. And such really helps get you in trouble with libraries. They tend to like having an ascending like people in your street team or people that you know, like to their library to request your book and such, that's a huge help for gaining more exposure for your books. I love libraries, I am very passionate about them and want to do more events at libraries to which I think that's a good entry point for a lot of authors who maybe don't have as much access to retailers, especially like in their hometown, you know, if you're in a smaller town, and an area that doesn't, that has a little bit of a book desert going on, you know, having an access to a library or having those online retailers where you can know by ads and such. And more readers, it's really beneficial.
Lainey Cameron 49:13
And I think you've had you've had success also with like face to face events, like local fairs or face to face selling events. Do you want to say a few words about that? Yeah,
Paulette Stout 49:22
For sure. I mean, for me, what I ended up doing is because just like Paulette was saying, I hadn't had as much success with local with smaller bookstores and you know, you can read lots of articles about the challenges they have and they really need high volume books that will turnover a lot to kind of keep them going. So smaller authors are sometimes what's profitable for them. So I've kind of taken the approach where I do like in person book selling at, you know, craft fairs, holiday fairs, associated book festivals, like things like that where I can be face to face with readers and have the conversation and you know, often sell you know, way more books in one day that you probably would sell them to your local bookstore who you know, real We need you to be driving to their storefront to make a profit.
Lainey Cameron 50:05
Do you ever Paulette Kennedy, do you ever do local fairs of any type?
Paulette Kennedy 50:10
I've been to a few book festivals, I was at the San Diego books last year on my agents invitation. And that was however, the bookstore couldn't get my books in stock. So I just signed bookmarks. So it's like when you you get them and make lemonade, right. So I just signed bookmarks and gave them to people who came up to the signing tape. And then whenever I was at h&s, they had an omen my books were theirs. And by I have, like local craft fairs, festivals that are super local to my area, but something interesting that I might look into it sounds like fun.
Paulette Stout 50:52
Yeah, and I think circling back to the libraries, like you were saying is, like, you know, reaching out for author talks, lots of libraries will do often talks in person and virtual, and they'll often have you have a book group or, you know, though, you'll be able to sell on site. So there's lots of other ways to engage with libraries. And oftentimes, when I've done talks at libraries, they will then you know, in advance of becoming, they will add the books that have collections. So libraries are, you know, kind of underfunded and understaffed. So sometimes when you email you don't hear back from them. But if, you know, I would suggest, pick us, you know, one of these channels, libraries, retail, in person or whatever, and kind of give it a go. You don't have to do all the things like with the last episode, just choose what you think you're comfortable with. Playing, you know, your thoughts are there. Yeah, totally.
Lainey Cameron 51:39
I'm off, don't do all the things and don't do all the things on social media, if you hate it, like I hate seeing the authors put all their creative energy into social media, because someone told them they have to. And the reality is like I do a wonderful compare for my class where I show them my results on social media versus my newsletter. And what I show them is that 90 days of posting on Instagram, and I have about 8500 followers on Instagram, 90 days of posting on Instagram, I think about the energy that goes into 90 days of posts. So how many times do I post in 90 days? How many days do I put on my story is equivalent to sending one newsletter, I get the same interaction and response and number of clicks and number of purchases from sending one newsletter that I do from 90 days of participation on Instagram, and my list of at the same size 8500 In both cases. So if you're gonna go put your energy somewhere, think about the amount of energy that goes into 90 days of Instagram versus one newsletter.
F or goodness sakes, get your author newsletter up and running. It's your number one marketing tactic go down it, folks. So that's why you've heard me say that earlier. I just want to ask, I think my last question, and then I really want to hear more about parallettes latest release. My last question is, is there anything we haven't talked about here that you wanted to talk about today? Either Lette or Paulette?
Paulette Stout 52:57
I'll let Paulette go first on that one. She's our lovely guest.
Paulette Kennedy 53:03
Well, one of the things that I'll just say it goes back to that whole community thing, it's like going forward, we're all in this together and the publishing community is small and people that are just coming up might be future best selling authors. And so build those relationships and keep your circle and you know, reach out another thing that has worked for me too with especially with getting reviews is or like online virtual book tour is improved. That really helps introduce me to has helped introduce me to Bookstagram accounts and people like that who have become networks that I can reach out to for future books to like for cover rules and things like that. They're always happy to help with events like that to help boost your future work. So it's all about like building relationships now and paying it forward.
Paulette Stout 54:02
Yeah, that's a great, that's a great thing. I think that I'm continuing to keep your book kind of out in the conversations you know, you like the people sometimes do book tours post launch. Also, you're not all you know, books to grammars and influencers are interested in books, they like the newness of it, but there are those that will. So you can pursue those I've also done you know, kind of review pushes to try to get more, you know, book reviews on there's lots of different companies that do that that will sometimes work with you out of the book launch cycle. The only one thing that we didn't mention in terms of a post launch strategy is just scheduling periodic, you know, book sales or price reductions and then working with different newsletters to you know, send them out you can see like I typically because my books are women's fiction, I like to work with people who actually have that category. Not all newsletters have that category, but depending on your genre. There are a lot of newsletters that will Have you send out to different communities and you know, if you're focused on intense or free or whatever, for a very limited amount of time, that's a nice way to kind of Spike the interest back into your book. And even when your price goes back up, sometimes you get some tail, long tail sales out of a kind of initial price reduction.
Lainey Cameron 55:17
That's a, that's a good point. And I'm picking up on what Paulette Kennedy said, you know, if I could go back in time and tell authors who are early in their author career, one thing is that you're not in competition with other authors. I see this as a common mistake that authors very early on before they're published before, they're really part of the author community. They misunderstand how this works. And they think that they're in competition. And just that mindset, there will screw with your head and mess up your author career.
And so you just need to let that go really early on. You're never in competition with other authors, I might even do a whole episode about this. But like, it's just a really important mindset to like, sweep it out your head, get rid of that reset. This is all about community and helping each other. And you will have an entirely different experience as an author through your career. I have two questions for you, polet Kennedy. But before I do that, let me just point out that if you're listening to this, especially on the audio version, and you're going, Oh, my goodness, wait, we mentioned like this right hive thing. And we mentioned like Pelech had something really good for marketing and for advertising. And like Laney mentioned this other thing, we have the full transcript on the website, and we will have links to every resource we mentioned. So if we mentioned someone that we think is helpful, we will put the link to where you can find them and connect with them.
And you can find all of that at www.bestofbookmarketing.com. So don't panic, if you missed something and you're trying to find it. You can also always send us a message but we go through and we put all of that on the episode page on the website. And so I will wrap up with two questions for Paulette Kennedy. The first one is, you mentioned one resource right time. Can you tell us a little bit more about that? Because I know it's something you said you're passionate about. And you've worked with them and you found it to be a great resource.
Paulette Kennedy 56:56
Yes, right. Right. Hive is on one community. And it's all volunteer their conferences completely here. It's free, they put it on every year, I've also been touring the internet, that's it's been really beneficial to a lot of newer authors and authors that are between agents or who want to be independently published, there are lots of resources. There's lots of like critique groups and they need on their discord. Just go to their right pipe.com You will find all kinds of information. There are all kinds of resources on our YouTube channel too. They record all panels that their conference was up for the public on YouTube. So there are just so many different avenues through right hive that you can get to know other authors and you can form critique groups and, and also just learn more about like marketing and advertising your books after you're published.
Lainey Cameron 57:55
Awesome. And my last question for you is please tell us about your last release and your next release. Because there's people listening are like, I don't know Paulette Kennedy, you write historical fiction. Books.
Paulette Kennedy 58:09
Yes, so my last book, which came out in March as The Devil Mrs. Davenport is about a 1950s housewife who developed psychic abilities after a short illness and it's kind of a suspense thriller, a little bit of a domestic thriller. And then my next book doesn't have a title yet, but it's in production. I just finished with developmental edits. And that is set in the 1920s. All my work is historical, I kind of jump around between eras because I get bored. But it is about a woman who goes great ask her. And while she's there, her great aunt is an artist of Veritas, and she discovers that her aunt's paintings are haunted, and work as portals to the past. And so she can go back in time and kind of see what her aunt's life was like before when she was a young woman. And there are lots of fun things going on with that book. And there's also a heavy romantic subplot with that one.
Paulette Stout 59:09
That sounds like the juiciest thing ever. Y'all the Devil and Mrs. Davenport was ridiculously amazing. This like phenomenal. Go read it. I'm so excited for this book. I'm just gonna get it done already.
Lainey Cameron 59:22
I'm guessing after this conversation Paulette Kennedy, if if Yeah, I actually have The Devil and Mrs. Davenport on my iPad and I'm so backed up on my review requests that I have, you know, blurb requests from other authors that I have to finish all those before I can read the books I want to read like that, like like, I really want to read it, but I can't I have to finish my blurb request first. So I always feel like I'm doing homework or I try to support other authors and books. It's I have to prioritize those first so I meet those deadlines. But I'm really looking forward to it's on my iPad pad. I bought it the day it came out so I'm so Paulette I'm gonna guess Kennedy that the best way if people want to know about that new book when it comes out I get when it gets a title is to follow you on your newsletter would be to sign up for your newsletter would be the best thing for them right? There we go.
Paulette Kennedy 1:00:07
Yes and you can find my newsletter on my website. So Paulette kennedy.com And then you can also find me on social media at Pete Kennedy writes, it's my handle on Instagram.
Lainey Cameron 1:00:18
Perfect. Well, I think we've reached the top of the hour. I think it's been another action packed episode with lots of good tips. Like I said, all the notes are on the website at best of book marketing.com. Any any last comments from either Paulette before we wrap up?
Paulette Stout 1:00:33
I love this topic and we've got some really great episodes coming up. So keep a look out for the future episodes of The Best of book marketing.
Lainey Cameron 1:00:43
And we have a newsletter too, so on the website sign up for our newsletter because that's how you'll hear each time a new episode comes out and what resources are available from each one. Okay.
Paulette Kennedy 1:01:00
Thank you so much for having me. It was great to be here.